New truck and New starter problem

[myfordeatschevys]

I just traded my old truck for the truck ive wanted since i was a kid its a 1971 F-100 4x4 and im haveing trouble already when i go to start it every other time it grinds real bad i went to the car lot to talk to the guy who sold it to me and asked him if it was grinding when he had it and he said it did and i said it looks like its got a brand new starter on it and he said it did so my question is what is WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT? Its a 390 with a 4 speed manual trans. Everyone ive asked has told me something diferent shim the starter, needs new flywheel. Any ideas? I called a couple auto part stores and they dont sell starter shims and i called a couple altonator and starter places and they dont either and i dont have money to take it to a shop my girlfriend is ready to kill me cause i bought it. Any help would be great thanx

[FORDification]

Sounds like maybe you need to pull the starter and check a few things. Make sure the bendix teeth are intact and check the flywheel teeth to make sure the starter hasn't chewed them up. Ground-jump it to make sure the bendix is fully engaging. Ford starters don't need to be shimmed....your buddies must be Chebby lovers.

[myfordeatschevys]

You nailed that one they arechevy lovers well thinks for the help but i have another question the vin #s on my door tell me my engine is a 360 but the guy at the car lot told me its a 390 so what if he installed a 390 starter on a 360 would this be a problem and how do i find out what my engine size is?

[FORDification]

You'll find most sellers try to pass off a 360 as a 390....and it definitely sounds like the dealer you got your truck from wasn't the most reputable dealer in town.

The 360 and 390 blocks are identical externally. The only way of differentiating between the two, since there are no external markings to tell you what you've got, is to measure the stroke. Simply rotate the crankshaft around until the #1 cylinder is at TDC (top dead center) as indicated at the timing mark. Remove the spark plug and insert a wooden dowel into the cylinder until you hit the top of the piston and make a mark on the dowel. (Use the valve cover lip as a constant reference source.) Then remove the spark plug from the #4 cylinder (when #1 is TDC, #4 is BDC) and make another mark on the dowel. Then measure the difference. A 360 has a 3.50" stroke and a 390 has a 3.78" stroke.

A 360 can easily be converted to a 390 by swapping in the 390 reciprocating assembly (crank, rods & pistons). The 352 has the same stroke as a 360, just a slightly smaller bore.

352 (4.00" bore / 3.50" stroke)
360 (4.05" bore / 3.50" stroke) - a 352 crank in a 332-390 block.
390 (4.05" bore / 3.78" stroke)

[willowbilly3]

It sounds like it needs a new ring gear on the flywheel. The engine almost always stops in the same postion and a worn out starter drive will chew up the teeth. Sometimes a new started will fix the problem for a while and sometimes not. The fix is to remove the tranny and get the flywheel out. Cut the old gear off. If you are handy with a torch you can cut it with that. Then the new gear has to be heat up to a dull red and it will fall right on. Tap it down with a hammer and a drift to seat it and when it cools it is installed.
Of course this is a pretty labor intensive job and since you will have the clutch out too you might as well figure on replacing it too. And if the rear mainseal is leaking much this is a good time to fix that too. And probably new U-joints if they look aged since you will have the drivelines out to pull the tranny. Welcome to the world of old trucks, too bad you bought one off a used car salesman.

[68F250]

I don't know if you got one of your questions answered but yes, a 360 and a 390 starter are the same beast.

These Ford starters are a weak point imo, when they go bad they'll grind like yours, I usually have to replace mine every couple years or so. Maybe (cross your fingers) you got a bum rebuilt starter, check the condition of the teeth and that the shaft is tight in end of the snout and hasn't pounded out the sleeve. Also see if the midplate is between the engine and the tranny.

But my guess is the flywheel too. Pull off the inspection plate and check the condition of the teeth, any sharp edges, metal dust from grinding, etc.

Good luck!

[lobuck76]

Another thing to try is to loosen all three starter bolts a little, hold a bind on the starter away from the flywheel with a screwdriver or little bar while tightening a couple of the bolts.
You may just scoot it out a few thousands, but sometimes it makes a difference.

[willowbilly3]

I was doing one in a friends dad's garage once and one of the grease monkeys told me I could just flip it so I did. Turns out that one had a slight taper and wouldn't turn loose of the starter drive after the engine started. Had to do it all over again. That was on a 428 I had in my old 69 Highboy. For crip's sake if you go you all the work, spend a couple bucks and get a new one. And put a new starter drive in at the same time, even if you did just replace it last week.
Trying to heat it off takes a good bit longer as the flywhell gets hot too and then you have to wait for it to cool down.

[lobuck76]

I remember the same subject coming up awhile back. I've flipped I think three starter rings with no problems, but only one was a ford. The others were my '69 chev and a case tractor. Sounds like replacing with new starter ring would be the best choice.
I've always removed them cold, just keep tapping around a little at a time with a brass drift and a shop hammer.
I had to replace the rear main seal on my old tractor 8 or 10 years ago. The starter ring looked really bad so I flipped it over while I was in there. I was out of fuel for the torch, I stuck the ring on the oven for a little bit. (wife was a work) It grew enough to start on the flywheel. They sure enough won't start on the flywheel if you don't warm them up a little.

[Kaylle]

Sorry about this post, shoud have read the previous one.


I have done the new ring gear thing a few times on FE motors. You really do not need a tourch. You can use a a punch and hammer and tap the old ring gear off (it's easy). Then wait until your wife is not around. Stick the new ring gear in the oven, crank the oven all the way up. Bake until done, 1/2 an hour or so. Leave your flywheel outside were it is cold. Use some oven mits , drop the new ring gear on the flywheel, tap in place. Thats the easy part, I would have the flywheel resurfaced while you had it off. I would also change clutch and pressure plate and throw out bearing, if they looked even worn a little. But I would try a diffrent starter before I did anything. Make sure yours is tight.

Steel grows about .0000007" per degree F, per inch of steel. So you only need about a 400degree temp increase to give you .040" to .050" to play with.

[myfordeatschevys]

Well heres a little update i removed the dust cover to check out the flywheel and the teeth are missing just a little off each end about 1/16 or an 1/8 of an inch almost like the starter dosnt get ahold of the whole tooth. Are they supose to grab the whole tooth or just the first edge. The starter had 2 out of the 3 bolts loose just a little but i tightened them and went to start it and it grind. I havnt pulled the starter off yet cause the heeders are wraped around it and i dont have a new gasket to put on it yet and do i need to use gasket sealer?

Thanx for everones help i will try some of the ideas im busted right now cause i bought the truck but i will do what i can to solve the problem with what little money i have now.

[Jay]

Starters run about 50 bucks, gaskets about 20.
I'm going through the same process right now, it really isn't much fun with no funds.

[flyboy2610]

I havnt pulled the starter off yet cause the heeders are wrapped around it and i dont have a new gasket to put on it yet and do i need to use gasket sealer?

Red Flag Alert!
Do you have any sort of heat shield on your starter? If not I would recommend you wrap a starter blanket around it when you reinstall it. Heat from header has killed many a starter.