NP435 variations?

[Dave 64]

Hi All,

Reasonably new member to this site, from Australia. Have a question regarding differences in the NP435's transmissions used. I am guessing that the transmission is original, from behind a 240 ci 1968 F350, unfortunately it has no stickers on either the vehicle OR the tranny, have heard they can SOMETIMES be identified by casting numbers. Cast iron case, alloy top etc. I also got hold of a spare transmission very cheaply, but I think it may have came from behind a V8, roughly same era. Again, no tags or stickers. I'm wondering if there were any difference in the ratios when similar trans were used behind the big six (4.88 diff ratio) and the spare from the V8? (Both Ford) It is easy to count the input/output splines of the spare box, not so easy with the one in the project vehicle, not without pulling the box out.

Were the bellhousings the same? (six VS V8?).

Both transmissions look the same externally, but I did find one small discrepancy, the transmission shift levers are NOT interchangeable! Where the ball that sits in the alloy top housing has been machined to accept the two small dowell pins, one sticks slot has been cut quite a lot deeper than the other. Where it stops the cane shift itself from rotating.

I have also learned that different vehicle manufactures, (Ford, G.M, Dodge, I.H.) all used variations of the NP435, including different input shaft lengths, spline counts etc. And thats not to mention the differing ratios. I THINK mine are the 6.69/3.34/1.79/1.00-1 stock standard Ford NP435.

Has anyone ever tried swapping different ratios in and out of these boxes? One bloke told me that Dodge used a 'close ratio' version with something like a 4.09:1 first gear, which gave a better spread in 2nd,3rd, 4th? Again, I don't know enough about the subtle differences. If they are anything like Warner Gear, although seemingly similar transmissions, a lot of parts from different vehicle manufacturers are not interchangeable even though the transmissions may be made by the same company (e.g. New Process/Warner Gear and even Spicer).

A heads up would certainly be appreciated, just hope I have posted to the correct forum topic.
Thanks, Dave 64

[ToughOldFord]

Not sure about the ratios between the 6 and 8, that's a good question.

But the bell's, that depend what you want to do. The 6 is not the same as the big block V8, 352/360/390, etc, and the 385 series, 400,429,460, etc, is different as well, but the 6 cyl bolt pattern is the same as the small block V8, 302,351, etc.

[Dave 64]

Thanks for the reply, I would hazard a guess and say that the spare box I have here, is from behind either the 302/351. As I am NOT doing an engine change , I thought that it would be handy to have a spare that would fit behind the inline six that I have utilised.

I have been told by others, on different forums, that the same gearbox was used behind both engines (in-line six 240/300 as well as 302/351 V8) but there was a difference in the 3rd gear ratio, one ran 1.74:1 and the other the lower 1.66:1, which way I wasn't advised. But it would certainly be feasable.

Again, thanks. Dave

[sykanr0ng]

Vehicle parts manufacturers often make "running" changes in long produced part assemblies, meaning that it may not be 6cyl vs 8cyl but pre February 19xx vs post February 19xx or serial number 23000 and lower vs serial number 23001 and higher (as examples)

[Dave 64]

Thanks for the input re above.
Cheers, Dave64

[Dave 64]

Hi All,
Been going through various parts of the forum, trying to establish if the 67-72 F trucks that utilised BOTH the Warner Gear T98/T18 and also the New Process NP435 manual 4 speed transmissions were interchangeable at THE BELLHOUSING FACE?

I am asking particularly about 240/300 in-line sixes (which I am led to believe shared the same ENGINE to BELLHOUSING face pattern as the 302 Windsor)) instillation. Naturally, whatever transmission that bolts to this particular in-line will have the same engine to bellhousing face fit up, BUT would the REAR face of the bellhousings differ between the Front face of the Warner T98/T18 and the NP435?

Simply put, can the two transmissions be swapped for each other? Forget length for a moment, one is supposed to be an inch longer than the other.
I would imagine that input spline counts, spline diameters as well as input spline lengths WOULD be identical so as to cut down on production costs.
Can find plenty of references to the inline 6 240/300, likewise the NP435 and the Warner Gear T98/T18/19, but NOWHERE can I find if the same BELLHOUSING was used for both transmissions.

I have a couple of Ford NP435's here, plus a Dodge NP435 (different input spline set up, as well as different transmission face pattern) stashed down at a mates place waiting to get a chance to lift it out.

Got a project in the wind that calls for a Ford Warner Gear T98/T18/19 transmission if I can find one, (they are about, but nowhere near as common as the NP435 at least over here in Australia). IF they use the same bellhousing, I may be able to cheat a bit and use an NP box with an adapter plate.

Would certainly appreciate any thoughts offered, perhaps someone who has access to a master parts catalogue could look up the listings and either pass them along or post them in a reply?

Thanks, Dave 64

[Dave 64]

Meant to add, cast iron bellhousing I have here from behind inline 6 has part number C5TA-6394A 7.

Reading around different forums are telling me very common, just wish to confirm if same bellhousing fits both Warner Gear and New Process.

Thanks again, Dave 64

[Dave 64]

Hi All,
Haven't posted for a while, so time to say g'day again.
Do have a quick query, do casting numbers necessarily mean anything? I have here a spare NP435 transmission which has the following casting numbers, F21Y2 then under that either C or G 97247. No other tags anywhere, no clue what vehicle came out of, possibly either a 66 or 68 F100. I picked the box up at a sale for spares.
Had NO input shaft, just a home made plate over where the housing would normally go, same deal with the top cover, so no date stamp.
The output shaft housing has the sequence "C97899-D".
Any idea as to just what it may be? Tried googling the part numbers, just tells me it is an NP435, but DOES not tell me if it is a Ford casting # or for another manufacturer. Bloke I bought it off thought it "could" be ex Ford, but then again could have been made for someone else, couldn't even remember whether it had a coarse or fine input spline. Have a use for it if I can positively ID it.
Winding the mainshaft over, pretty sure it is the 6.68 1st, 3.34 2nd, 1.66 3rd, 1.00 4th, pretty bog standard ratios, but also used by the opposition!
Any help appreciated, Thanks, Dave

[sargentrs]

Lot of information down this rabbit hole http://mmerlinn.com/catalog/gbeezy1/np_435/np435_f.htm Kind of hard to maneuver around but contains stuff that may help you identify.

[Dave 64]

Thanks a million!
Dave

[mmerlinn]

There should be an aluminum tag under two bolts on the PTO cover which gives the OEM part number for the transmission assembly. That may or may not help you.

Case casting numbers typically for most, but certainly not all, transmissions tend to be manufacturer specific. Same with tail housings. And often with front bearing retainers. Top covers on NP435s seem to fit different OEMs depending on what was needed for proper shifting. At least one cover had TWO different variations (with or without mounting bosses on the side) with the SAME casting number.

Finally, the website you were pointed to above is my website. It ONLY lists what I have learned over the years and is NOT COMPLETE by any stretch of the imagination.

[Dave 64]

mmerlinn,
Thanks for the reply, went to your website, very handy reference location.
Looks like I gave you blokes a bum drum, or given one myself.
The casting numbers given were those belonging to the opposition (Dodge). Touble is I have another two as spares, plus another in pieces, one of the casings , again going by the chart, is definitely Ford. Plus a box full of spares I collected at a garage sale, only thing they seen to have in common is they are all the 6.68-3.34-1.66-1.00 ratio.
The Ford box has a short 1 and 1/4" X 10 output spline, but the input and nose cone looks like it came from a smaller Ford, possibly F250-F350, again 10 spline but much smaller in diameter. And not a tag on any of them! Only casting numbers on the actual case.No output housing to get any numbers off either.
If I were to hazard a guess, I'd venture that the Ford box is out of a larger truck with the transmission brake on the back, but for some reason has the smaller input. No top or rear housing on that one, could have been something that someone was tinkering with and just slapped the smaller input shaft and nose cone on to put it into a garage sale.
I only gave $25 for it, as it was, with another carton with gears, synchro ring, a butchered mainshaft and a handful of bolts.I reckoned at that price if I only salvaged the case itself, it was worth that. So, no tags, but can work off casting numbers on the cases, most internals seem to be interchangeable, maybe different input and mainshaft output spline diameters and counts, maybe different locating holes for bellhousing fitment.
Just as an aside, a 1968 Ford bellhousing from behind the 300 big six, bolted directly to the NP445 I had bought over from the States, even though they never came out with that as an option, as far as I know. It was strictly the oppositions use, only for the years 1968-1970 or so I have been told.
Thanks again for the help. Cheers, Dave64

[Dave 64]

Hi All,
Just a quick request, hoping that someone may have a contact in the spare parts area who could maybe suss outy the availability and cost including post/packaging to Australia.

What I'm chasing is a "small parts kit" to suit a 1967-1972 Ford NP435 manual transmission. Got about 4 of these boxes kicking around in the shed, all in various stages of pull down, just about to start assembling one decent one or maybe two, but need parts.

Not having any luck over here in OZ, Ford dealers not interested, wrote emails to a few importers, so far not even an acknowledgment.
See them advertised on line all the time, but I'm hopeless at online shopping, and unless you make an actual purchase and put it in the "cart", don't seem to be able to get anywhere.

Seems like the days of getting on the phone, or dropping into your local transmission joint for advice are well and truly gone. If you are not buying or don't really know hat you want, they don't want to talk to you.

Like I said, after a "small parts kit", countershaft bearings, thrust washers, needle rollers, spacers, circlips all the small parts to assemble an NP435, don't need gaskets or input/output bearings, synchro rings etc. Can't get much further than assemble all the internals ready to start putting together.
only other thing I'm looking for at this stage is a set of those small nylon slippers that go on the ends of the selector forks.
Hoping someone may be able to help out.
Thanks Dave 64

[Dave 64]

There should be an aluminum tag under two bolts on the PTO cover which gives the OEM part number for the transmission assembly. That may or may not help you.

Case casting numbers typically for most, but certainly not all, transmissions tend to be manufacturer specific. Same with tail housings. And often with front bearing retainers. Top covers on NP435s seem to fit different OEMs depending on what was needed for proper shifting. At least one cover had TWO different variations (with or without mounting bosses on the side) with the SAME casting number.

Finally, the website you were pointed to above is my website. It ONLY lists what I have learned over the years and is NOT COMPLETE by any stretch of the imagination.

merlinn,
Found another old case which DID have the tag still on it
"CTA 7003 AJ FL53" next line down "12 6 67 435"
Did a quick tooth count on the main and countershafts, stock standard 6.68:1 First, 1.66:1 Third, gather the 12-6-67 is simply the date of manufacture, 435 simply the model designation, rest of it I haven't a clue, maybe which factory it came from etc? To the best of my knowledge, these old girls were assembled here in Broadmeadows from imported parts, why we often found F trucks being sold as say a 1974 model but if you looked at the date stamp on top of the transmission housing it may well be 1970.
They all did it over here, we were a bit of a dumping ground , always a couple of years behind you blokes. Mainly just using old stocks of components, we didn't have the sheer volume of sales that you enjoyed.
Cheers, Dave 64

[mmerlinn]

C(missing digit)TA 7003 AJ is the Ford part number for the whole transmission assembly
FL53 - have not figured out what this means